Thanksgiving Thoughts

As Thanksgiving approaches, I am often drawn to memories of my childhood in New England. The colder, dreary month of November on the coast of Massachusetts was memorable in its own way. The air smelled heavily of salt water, the dampness was chilling even for youngsters and the early darkness of each day drove us all home, to the welcome and warm smells of supper cooking. To be among familiar objects and family gathered around the dining room table, was to find a secure barrier against the wicked elements that could blow in off the mighty North Atlantic. It was an insulation against the unknown, a safe haven from the boogey man and a cheery cocoon for young minds with over active imaginations. It was Fall in Winthrop. We had raked leaves into huge piles, jumped into them a gazillion times and, yes, burned them in the gutters. I still miss the smell of burning leaves. We had made sure the storm windows were in place. This was no easy task as they had to be taken off and put on from the outside, on ladders. They were separate from the window frames and had spent the summer stored in the cellar awaiting the first cold blasts of approaching winter.  It was time to get out the hats, mittens, scarves, boots, warm jackets and leggings. How I hated the leggings!! Nothing like today's warm, nearly water proof outdoor gear, these leggings would be wet soon after the first snow angel.  We spent November getting ready for winter. Sometimes, winter hit with huge Nor'eastahs, dumping snow up to my chin, long before we were truly ready. But most of the time, November was just cold and gray. There was much to look forward to in November with lots of days off from school. We always had election day off, then Veteran's Day and then the two days for Thanksgiving. My older sisters were very into high school football. I went to many of the games too, with kids my own age. We spent weeks, before Thanksgiving, cutting up newspapers into strips and then into small squares, our very own home grown confetti. It was extra special when we could add the Sunday comics to the mix. All this was for the Thanksgiving football game, the last of the season, with a rival high school team. I didn't care a bit about the game. I was there to cheer with the cheerleaders, yell at the top of my lungs and throw confetti. It was glorious! The game was in the morning so by the time we got home, there was the heaven sent aroma of a turkey roasting in the oven. Our dinner was probably very traditional.  I'm not sure I ever asked any of my friends what they had for their dinners. I guess I thought everyone had what we had. This was before the day of frozen turkeys so ours was fresh and needed to be dunked in a sink full of cold water to clean it all out. My father made the onion stuffing with stale bread. He always stuffed the turkey the night before and we never got sick once!!!!  My mother and grandmother had made pies and fresh cranberry orange relish. I never did acquire a taste for this relish but still love canned cranberry sauce. My grandmother insisted on having mince meat pies, another item my taste buds never quite got used to. There was mashed potato, sweet potato, boiled onions, Hubbard squash, stuffing, turkey and gravy. It was a feast fit for royalty. Sometimes we had relatives join us, swelling our ranks to 10 or more at the table. Warm pies, including pumpkin, would be served with real whipped cream. After clean up, the dining room table would be turned into a giant card table as we all gathered around to play Up The River. Out came the cards and the betting chips; let the games begin. I don't remember if I ever won or lost.  I just remember it being the most fun. The room was full of laughter and silliness. The only thing you could win was chips - no cash value. So we just played and laughed and enjoyed.  Each Thanksgiving I am so grateful for these memories. As I relive them, I am once again with my parents, grandmother, sisters and other family. I'm visiting my beloved childhood home and touching a time that was saner, safer and happier than what we have today.  

Anthony Henry Pye 1590-1656 Cornwall, England

Anthony Henry Pye 1590-1656

Anthony Henry Pye, the son of Anthony Pye and Constance Pound m. Elizabeth Trethewey, 1614, in St. Stephen’s, Brannell. Since Anthony Henry was supposed to have been born in 1590, the following information probably refers to his father:

An Anthony Pye is listed in A2A in Parishes of St. Austell, St. Ewe and St. Mewan under the Edgecombe family and concerned with MINING, dated May 17 1590.

It will be noted that later dates of 1632, still have this Pye family connected to the Edgecombe’s.

I have been able to find five children for this couple:

Henry (c.1616 - c.1655) – Unk. Wife – a son, Henry

William (c. 1617 - ?)

John (c. 1619 - ?)

Jane (c. 1621- ?)

Robert (Bapt. Mar. 21 1623 – burial Aug. 17 1700)

Trying to read the Registers for all the different areas in Cornwall has been most unsuccessful. The handwriting is so indecipherable that I, at first, thought it was written in Latin. Possibly some of it is. I was only able to distinguish a few given names such as Elizabeth, John (Johannes), Jone and Walter. I finally gave up on the surnames. I didn’t see anything even approaching a similarity with Pye/Pie/Opie/Apie, which are all spelling variations. The last two variants are the closest to ap Hugh, where in Wales the ‘u’ is pronounced ‘y’ or long ‘i’.

So I will continue with the information I have on this family and as time permits will try to decipher the handwriting in the Cornwall Registers.

Using the Archives on line, A2A, housed in London, this information was found but it is uncertain if this is the same Anthony (paraphrased):

Possibly the Anthony who paid 5 yrs rent to Sir Richard Edgcumbe for land in Hewas Francis, on Apr 23 1632.

A2A LEASES Manor of Bodrugan File ref. ME/1289 date 23 Apr 1632 Scope and Content: Receipt by Sir Richard Edgcumbe for 2s. 6d. for five years high rent due from Anthony Pye for land in Hewas Francis; signature

Since Anthony Henry’s father died in 1627, it’s likely this statement is about him and not his father. There are a couple more Anthony’s in Cornwall but they don’t fit the timeline for 1632. So unless another Anthony shows up, I believe this Anthony to be the one mentioned in the 1632 Scope and Content.

Anthony Henry’s son, William, is said to have been born in Bodinnick. Without proof, I can only say that he was born in Cornwall. There is no known wife for him, but he had three known children:

Elizabeth m. Roger Crewes

John m. Jone (Unknown) – 3 children

Anthony of Grampound m. Phillipa Andrew Sep 8 1684 – 1 child

There is little more information on this Pye line. Serious efforts have been made to connect this family line with the Pyes who eventually settled in Newfoundland. However, although repeating names suggest family connections, no records have been discovered to verify any of it. Perhaps in time more information will become available.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/

http://ukga.org/england/Cornwall/visitations/index.html

Carew’s Survey of Cornwall.pdf

Alexander Pye 1535-1569

Alexander Pye was the son of John Pye and an unknown wife. He was born in
St. Stephen’s, Brannell, Cornwall, England, about 1535. Again, I will reiterate, there is not one speck of proof that Elizabeth Courtenay was married to John Pye or was the mother of Alexander. In fact, other records show that Elizabeth Courtenay was married to John Trethewey. Granted she could have been married more than once, but nowhere have I found one mention of John Pye being married to Elizabeth Courtenay. Whatever the case, Alexander was not the first born so the naming patterns of the time may not apply. I have found one curious tidbit that I hope to pursue to truth or fiction. The statement indicated that a John Pye had changed his name to Trethewey in order to inherit a certain amount of property. If that should prove true than we could have a Trethewey (Pye)/Courtenay marriage. Even if it is true, it does not mean they were the parents of Alexander. Research on these people has been slow and painful.

However, there have been some interesting finds. Boconnoc, Brannell, Boddinick and Bodmin are all geographically fairly close to each other. They are all near the River Fowey. Bodmin appears on maps to be nearly due north of the river mouth. Boddinick is on the east side of the river, near the mouth, and is known for being the residence of Daphne du Maurier, authoress. Brannell lies to the west in St. Stephen’s parish and Boconnoc lies to the north and east of the river. All four of these locations have been named in documents pertaining to the Pye family over the centuries. The River Fowey supported a large and thriving fishing and boat building community. One of the most interesting things I found was that one of the prominent families of Boddinick was Slade. They had many ships and transported local China clay or imported coal. One of the companies who processed and transported dried Cod from Battle Harbor, Newfoundland, to the Continent was the Slade Co. This was an unexpected find and supports the immigration of Pyes from Cornwall to Newfoundland. Be aware, I said ‘supports,’ I did not say “proves.’

 

 

Daphne de Maurier home, on the right. The Old Ferry Inn on the hill behind.

As mentioned in the last post, there was family history of the Pyes being connected to the Carminow’s. A correction is needed here as the lasted post stated incorrectly that the land was in St. Brannel. It should have said St. Stephen in Brannell. In searching geographical locations and their histories I did come upon this interesting statement in The History of Cornwall, by Fortescue Hitchings, Esq., Vo II, p. 612, 1824 …..

"The manor of Bodinneck, which belonged to the Carminows of Boconnoc, passed from this family to the Courtenays. Some considerable time afterwards it was in the family of Pye, by whom it was sold to John Tanner, Esq., M. P. for Grampound. This gentleman made Bodinneck his residence. This is now a farm house, the property of Lord Grenville."

 This shows there was some history of the Pyes owning property that had once belonged to the Carminow’s and Courtenays. There are records to show that some members of the Pye family married Tanners. However, these connections do not contribute anything to the man known as Alexander Pye.

Alexander was apparently not a very noteworthy person in the area that he lived. There is not much mention of him in the history books neither of that location nor in the records and documents of that era. He married Marion Corne (Coryn), who was the daughter of Richard Corne and Elizabeth Vyvyan (Vivian). Richard’s parents were Michael Coryn and (?) Lovedon. Elizabeth’s father was John Vyvyan. Her mother is unknown.

Alexander and Marion had at least 4 children. Incorrecty, I see that I posted Alexander’s name when it should have been Anthony and Constance Pound’s children that were described. As many times as I read over these blogs before posting, I still find these goofy mistakes. Another error, a misspelling, is Margaret Pye married William Catcher (Not Cathcher).

The following children were Alexander’s and Marion’s:

Anthony (c 1559-1627) m. Constance Pound (c 1560-?) – 9 children (These children were discussed in the last blog.)

Male Child

Males Child

Anna (c 1560-?) m. Willmus Tremayne on Aug 13 1579 (The name Tremayne has taken on many spellings since the 1600's. One of them is Trueman.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodinnick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodmin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Stephen-in-Brannel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boconnoc

John Pye 1495 – 1582

Yet another John Pye comes forth as the son of John Pye and Ann de la Bere. It is said he was of Nansarth (Lansreath), of St. Stephen’s in Brannel, in Cornwall, though it does not appear he was born there. Not much is known about this John, not even the name of his wife. But he does appear in the The Visitations of Cornwall, comprising the Heralds’ visitations of 1530, 1573 and 1620, Lt. Col. J.L. Vivian, p. 287.

Having said that, there is no solid proof this is the same man who is John, s/o John Pye and Ann de la Bere. Every indicator seems to point in the direction of this being true, but lacking is the verification. So this continues to be a work in progress.  According to the pedigree shown in The Visitation, he had three sons, Alexander, John and John. The pedigree concentrates on Alexander, mentioning only that the first John had 2 sons and the second John had one son.  Although it may seem odd to us to have two children with the same name in one family, it wasn’t an uncommon thing in the 14^th and 15^th centuries. Usually it meant that the older one had died and the next child born was given the name of the diseased sibling, depending on whether male or female, of course. In this case, though, it appears that both men by the name of John lived to adulthood and had children. Most likely they had pet names they used or they used their middle names, which is a custom that shows also up in the Canadian Maritime Provinces in the 1800’s and 1900’s.

It has also been claimed that this John Pye married Elizabeth de Courtenay. Unfortunately, there is not a speck of evidence to support this. To date, the wife of this John is unknown. The story of this John seems to be that he left Herefordshire to claim his inheritance from his mother (de la Bere) in Devon and Cornwall, a much larger territory than what he would have received at the Mynde.  It has been stated, in several different places that land in St. Brannel, Cornwall, originally owned by the Carminow family, came into the hands of the Courtenays. This is quite likely as the two families had intermarried. What seems odd about this, is that later on the Pyes ended up with the land that had been in the hands of the Courtenays. The Pyes eventually sold the land to the Tanner family, which seems normal as there had been several marriages between the Pyes and the Tanners over the years. So we have a connection between the Carminows and the Courtenays and then between the Pyes and the Tanners, but nothing to connect the Pyes with the Courtenays.  This search continues on.

John’s son Alexander married Marion Corne, d/o Robert Corne and his wife Elizabeth Vyvyan (now commonly spelled Vivian). Alexander was the first born son, and I’m sure his name reflects his mother’s family. Through several generations there have been no male Pyes named Alexander. I’m convinced his name is a clue to who his mother or grandfather were, but, again, no proof.

Alexander and Marion’s Anthony married Constance Pownd (Pound), the d/o William Pownd. There is another family, John Pownd, whose daughter, Blanch, married Sir John Trelawny.  So far, I haven’t been able to connect these two Pound families, but the name Blanch is another clue, as it appears with some frequency in the Pye family.

The children of Alexander and Constance (Pound) Pye were:

Elizabeth (1579-1626) m. Thomas Burgess of Truro, Cornwall. They had 21           children. Their oldest son, another Thomas, 1601-1684, was b. in Truro           Cornwall, but d. in Sandwich MA. He and his wife (Dorothy Phippen) are    the ancestors of Thornton Burgess, early 1900’s author of children’s     book, i.e.  Old Mother West Wind.

Jane (1581-?) m. Henry Burgess

Margaret (c. 1583-?) m. William Cathcher – 10 children

John (1585-1617) m. Jane Tanner

Anthony II (1590-1656) m. Elizabeth Trethewey – 5 children

Thomas (1589- ?) m.  Grace Cosyn

Otwell (1591-bef. Sep 1683) m. Jane Thomas

Nathaniel (c. 1593-bef. Sep 1669) m. Jennifer

Joan (? -?) m. George Phippen (? – Jul 1650) Parents of Dorothy Phippen

I will leave this Cornwall branch of the Pyes to indulge in some more research. It’s quite possible the Nova Scotia and some of the Newfoundland families all originated in Cornwall. More investigation is necessary.

Visitations of Cornwall  Lt. Col. J. L. Vivian

The Visitation of the County of Cornwall 1620, Henry St. George, Harleian Society

John Pye of The Mynde 1444-1550

I have had great hesitation in writing about this John (there were many by this name over the centuries), simply because he presented such a monumental task of sifting through documented facts and speculation. It is documented that he did live from 1444-1550, to the tune of 106 years. This would be a remarkable feat today, but in the 14^th and 15^th centuries, it would have been almost incomprehensible. He is buried in Much Dewchurch where an epitaph stated his age, that he had three wives, 42 children and another 26 by ‘other’ women. During the Victorian era, this openly visible account of a less than virtuous man was considered offensive to many so it was removed from sight. It would also seem as though many other pieces of information about him were also removed. I can find no indication of what he did for a living, how he supported all those children and how he traveled to distant places and managed to procreate in a manner more associated with rabbits.

There are papers concerning him but they are in the National Archives in London or in the towns where he and his lands were associated. The papers are too delicate for copying or microfilming so it means a hands on approach. Unfortunately, a trip to London is not in my budget.

I’ll proceed with what information there is and state – up front – the caveat is that not much that is known is documented.

This John Pye was the son of John Tregos Pye (Tregos is the name of a place) and his wife Agnes Andrews. Agnes was the daughter of Roger Andrews ap Ithell, AKA, Roger ap Ithell ap William ap Andrews of Brown's Place, which became the Mynde. It is believed this is how The Mynde came into the possession of the Pye family. Roger’s wife is unknown. John Tregos  and Agnes had at least 7 children, but so far I’ve only discovered one son, John, the subject of this blog.

John married three times. According to birth and death dates of the three women, it would seem likely that Ann de la Bere was his first wife. Ann was the daughter of Sir Richard de la Bere. This family was from Cotentin, in Normandy, and were followers of William the Conqueror. One branch of the family settled in Gloucestershire, while Sir Richard’s branch were associated with Kinnersley  Castle in Herefordshire. Many of this family served as Sheriff’s of the county from Edward III on. Richard was married twice. His first wife Anne (Touchet) Audley, daughter of James Touchet, Lord Audley is the one concerned with here. Richard and Anne had a daughter, Ann, who became the first wife of John Pye of The Mynde.

James Touchet, Lord Audley was a distinguished veteran of the One Hundred Year’s Wars and the opening phases of the War of the Roses. He was also quite well connected. His first wife Margaret Roos was a descendant of the FitzAlan/Arundel family. His 2^nd wife was Eleanor de Holland, an illegitimate daughter of Edmund de Holland, 4^th Earl of Kent by Constance (Plantagenet) of York, daughter of Edmund of Langley, 1^st Duke of York and Infanta Isabella of Castile. James and Eleanor were the parents of Anne (Touchet) Audley, who married Sir Richard de la Bere. Edmund de Holland maternal and paternal grandmothers were Plantagenets. His mother was of the FitzAlan/Arundell family. Eleanor herself was a gt. granddaughter of King Edward III of England. Anne de la Bere was a 3x gt. granddaughter of King Edward III of England, in an illegitimate line of descent..

So John Pye of The Mynde married well when Ann de la Bere became his wife.  

His 2^nd wife was Anne Brydges.  The Brydges family was quite prominent in Herefordshire and Gloucestershire in the 1400-1500’s.  I’ve searched about everything I  can find and have only found one Anne Brydges who fits the time line of John Pye. This Anne’s father was Rowland Brugges (one of the ways this name was spelled) and her mother was Margaret Kelom. However, no marriage information is given for her so it cannot be said she is the 2^nd wife of John Pye. Every other Anne Brydges (and variant spellings) I could find either did not fit the time line or was married to someone else. So the 2^nd wife is inconclusive.

                The Church of St. David, Much Dewchurch, Herefordhire, England

His third wife was Elizabeth Whitney, the daughter of Sir Robert Whitney and his wife Alice Vaughn. Alice was the daughter of Thomas Vaughn and Ellen Gethyn. The Vaughns were a notable family in Wales.  Earlier ancestors of the Whitneys had been followers of William the Conqueror. They received lands in the Marches of Wales and took the name De Whitney of the Wye. The estate included about 2,000 acres and remained in the family until 1893. Sadly, for Elizabeth, her father, Robert, was attainted in 1459 as a Yorkist, for this was the time of The War of the Roses.  The Vaughn family has roots in Wales going back to the 10^th century. They were mentioned in the Domesday Book and several other early records of note. They remained in the Marches of Wales, marrying into many of the families  considered to be Marcher Lords.

The engraving on John Pye’s tomb that was removed from public view I given here.  http://www.theroyfamily.com/p44969.htm

1550
Here lyeth the Bodyof John Pye of Minde
a travayler in far countryes, his life ended
He left behind him Walter, his son, heire of Minde
a hundred and six yeares he was truly
and had sons and daughters two and fourty!

John Pyeof mynde
sone of Jon. pye, seconde sone of Jon. pye of Sadlebowe, esq
married 3 wiefes
his first wief was Anne, da. to Sr. Richard Delabyre, knight
his second wief was Anne Brigees
and his third wief was alrothes, da. to Sr. Robert Whitney, lord of Whitney
Hee had bye theme 42 children
And hee had by Concubines 22 Children¹

It is sad to say that with all these children, there are only names for about a half dozen of them. My belief is that most of them moved to other places in England. If you are searching for your Pye ancestors and have hit a brick wall, give a thought to the possibility that your ancestor was a child of John Pye of The Mynde.

Herefordshire biographies

 By John Hutchinson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tuchet,_5th_Baron_Audley

Genealogical and Personal Memoirs, Vol. III 1908

By William Richard Cutter

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/o/p/Linda-I-Copus/FILE/0007page.html

A Bunch of Stuff

Have you ever made queries on message boards or listed your research interests on a web site? I have done this for years. Sometimes it has paid off and sometimes there was no return at all.

Today I want to throw all that together and ask a bunch of questions. Perhaps I will be reaching a far different group of people who may know someone who knows someone, etc. who is researching some of the same names and localities.

So here goes:

Newfoundland
My gt. grandmother was Elizabeth Rachel Lacy, b. in Newfoundland in 1838. It is believed she was born in Murray Cove, Blackhead. It has been suggested that her father's name was Philip. I have a problem with that. According to the naming patterns of the day, there should have been a Philip among  her children and there wasn't.  There were plenty of sons, but no Philip. Her first born son was named Henry. Another son was named after her husband, John Charles Pye. I think it's possible that Henry could have been her father's name.  If anyone has a connection to or knowledge of the Lacy's of Newfoundland, I would love to hear from you.

James Pike of Red Bay is another person I have little or no information on. He is reported to be a Metis or part Cree or Innu. He would be my 4x gt. grandfather. This is getting much deeper into the beginnings of some of the settlements on Labrador. It's possible that there just isn't any documentation.

Ireland:
Elizabeth Lacy's father (Henry?, Philip?) was supposedly born in Ireland. There is no indication of where in Ireland they came from. Is anyone researching the Lacy families in Ireland?

Bridget Sheehan, my gt. grandmother, was born in Galway, according to her obituary. I can't 
seem to find many Sheehans in Galway in the 1830's-1840's  Her father was Michael Sheehan and her mother was Hanora. Bridget's death certificate says her mother's maiden name was Sagaton. I have searched for anyone of this name for many years. I haven't found one person with this name. It is thought that the person doing the recording couldn't understand the Irish brogue of my gt. grandfather and wrote down what they thought they had heard. It has been suggested that the name might be Preston or maybe even Sullivan. We know Bridget had at least one sister, Catherine, and that when she first arrived in Boston she was living in Hyde Park with the Daniel Sullivan family. I would love some clues to help solve this riddle.

Canada
New Brunswick
My 3x gt. grandmother was Margaret Wade, who was the 2nd wife of Ebenezer Cole. Her gravestone gives her death as 1876 at the age of 93., This would make her birth year around 1783. She married Ebenezer in 1810 and the marriage record states she was from Dorchester NB. My problem with her is that she seems to have no family. I can't find a Wade family who had a daughter Margaret with anything close to her birth year.  Then four years later a Sarah Wade married Jonathan Cole, a son of Ebenezer and his first wife. Is she Margaret's sister, where had she been living, who were her parents? This has been a 30+ year old puzzle for me and I'd love to find some help in solving this mystery.

I have some other brick walls and blind alleys, but these have been my pet peeves for a very long time.  Anyone have any ideas - Please!!!  Chime in.

My Summer So Far Continued

After a three week learning experience that I am not sure I wanted to learn, I am now home. How does one express the simple joy of being back in familiar surroundings, comforted by my family and all my furry friends? I'm sure my 2 year old cat thought he had been abandoned. He hasn't left my side for 3 days. Velcro-ed to my side, he looks up at me, blinks a few times, purrs louder and nestles in tighter. My little Bichon has become my fierce defender. No bicyclist, runner, walker or stray dog is allowed to cross that territory that runs in front of the house without his loudly protesting the audacity of such actions. Ohhhh, it is so good to be home.

I want to loudly declare my ongoing appreciation to all the staff at United Memorial Medical Center in Batavia NY. From the Emergency Room when I was admitted to the day I left for rehab, I was given the best care I have ever received from all levels of care givers. Then, I wonder, how did I get so lucky to have been put into the care of Dr. Landfried? By US News and Reports, he has been named one of the top 10 sports medicine and orthopedic surgeons in the United States. This decision was reached by peer survey. Wow! If there was anything to be happy about in this whole ordeal, it was that he would be my surgeon.

The LeRoy Village Green in LeRoy NY took my care a step further. Without their ongoing daily sessions with me, I wouldn't have learned balance, upper body strength, wheel chairs and walkers, all necessary to become independent enough to go home. I have learned that being a tri-ped is not fun nor what I want to do, but the coping skills I learned will carry me through. Thanks guys - you challenged me and I learned from it.

After just three weeks, I was at my first Dr. appointment yesterday. All is going well and I am now able to put about 25% pressure on my toes. The Physical Therapist showed me what and how to do all this, so I will be practicing religiously until her next visit. Neural pain can be difficult and intense at times but I know my leg is starting to wake up, reconnect and, hopefully, show signs of healing within. I've only been home for three days, but they have been busy with visits from nurses, physical and occupational therapists. Then I need some rest time for my leg. I hope the next few days will be quieter and that I will be able to return to my real love - genealogy and blogging..

I just want to say thank you to all those who sent me messages. I so appreciate your thoughts and good wishes.